Coach Norm Roberts’ Profile at St. John’s

A short history, and an extension of this earlier post.

At the end of Wednesday’s game, the announcers reflected on the Red Storm squad as if they had admirable pluck in coming back and staying in the game. But really, Marquette stopped playing hard. And why not? The team from Queens was getting blown out at home again. They’re young. It’s a bad patch, some will say. The announcers talk about how Coach Norm Roberts needs time, how he has to cook with the groceries he bought.

The groceries are, as follows:

+ the raw talent of Justin Burrell,
+ the rawer talent and size of Dele Coker,
+ the raw-like-sashimi Sean Evans,
+ the rotation of incomplete guards Horne (speed), Kennedy (rebounding/ defense), Wright (outside shooting), and Cavataio (activity/ offensive hustle),
+ the physical recovery of Rob Thomas,
+ the diminutive size and non shooting of the quick point guard Malik Boothe.

It’s the fourth year. What’s with all the new groceries? But despite what announcers love to say, New Yorkers aren’t as impatient. Certainly, there is a contingent of fans who want NCAA Tournament victories yesterday. But even for those who don’t have their head in the clouds, who don’t expect every young/ rebuilding team to look like Purdue or Baylor, this year has been disappointing.

There are too many new pieces to integrate into a program without taking the kind of lumps that might not come out of a young player. How much learning is happening in a 15-20 point blowout? A team doesn’t learn how to come back, or how to pace itself; they learn what breezy garbage time play can do for the stats. The “good” losses for a young team are the ones where a single mistake or two dooms the team, not the ones where the whole game was a mistake.

It’s one thing to lose a lot. It’s another to look as if the team is in a different, weaker, non-televised, directional-state low-major conference. The team took on some blowouts last year, and that was one disturbing trend. But this year, with the team of the future, they’ve been blown out often. The fans want something to believe in, some confidence that the Red Storm fortunes are changing. Instead, look at these adjusted (for competition) offensive efficiency numbers and rankings for the St. John’s Red Storm from 2005-2008 (from Ken Pomeroy’s site) with notes on each of Coach Roberts’ teams.

Year by Year Notes on Coach Norm Roberts’ teams after the jump.

Game #23: St. John’s at Cincinnati recap

The New York papers were more concerned with the Notre Dame vs U Conn tilt last night—for near-supremacy in the Big East, and of interest to the Catholic Notre Dame fans who are thick in NY and the U Conn grads who move to the city. So they filed AP reports, and the Cincy papers actually sent people to the games to watch Big John Williamson hit the Red Storm with his pimp hand:

Cincinnati Enquirer: Williamson’s Hand Even Hotter

NY Daily News (AP)

Rivals.com: Williamson Too Much for St. John’s

With Respect to the Keys of the Game:

Execution?

Q: “What do you think of the execution of the team?”

A: “Sounds like a good idea.”

Malik Boothe got in no kind of rhythm. Neither did Geno Lawrence. The Red Storm repeatedly tested the limits of the shot clock, and made their moves to the basket with under ten seconds left… the prevent offense, but this is not Dean Smith and there IS a shot clock. The game don’t work like this anymore, especially if there isn’t an offensively creative player. Lawrence is creative, but he isn’t half quick enough to save this team. Burrell tried to pass out of double teams but generally missed whoever he was passing to; his turnovers are getting worrisome.

I see why Anthony Mason Jr. is given free rein to shoot and slash—he and Larry Wright are the only players capable of getting their shot off. Neither is as good at it as sophomore Deonta Vaughn, and Wright isn’t great at it under pressure yet. Please refer this aspect of the game to the “fail” blog.

Rebounding? Big John Williamson had 11 rebounds and dominated the action inside. Burrell played soft, and when he made decisive moves he was doubled. He and Evans couldn’t get to the glass.

Negating the Other Players? This would depend on doing a credible job against John Williamson, who carried the Bearcat team last night. The Bearcats shot 47% (55% inside the arc), so they were getting the ball to the right players.

St. John’s pretty much failed in every aspect of the game. The official Red Storm site can’t even put up photos with the recap. If there are no pictures… maybe it didn’t happen.

Again.

Game #23: St. John’s 43 at Cincinnati 60

How much longer can the torture last? – MC Lyte, Cappuccino

Cincinnati is 12-12, 7-5 in conference play. St. John’s falls to 10-13, 4-8 in conference play.

Another game against an opponent that should be comparable— albeit on the road—and St. John’s looked like a low-level Horizon League team in an early season guarantee game. They shot under 26% overall, but 41.7% on the 12 3-point shots they took. That’s 20% on shots inside the arc. That can be attributable to good Cincy defense. But allowing a team that shot 18% on their 3-point shots and 47% overall… 55% from inside?

I am sure I’ll have use for that picture of dejected St. John’s players again. This game was a real turdblossom, but the shooting… that wasn’t the worst part. Maybe it was the 14 turnovers and 7 assists?

The single player in double figures (Larry Wright, 14)?

The confused offense, as always? With Justin Burrell passing to no one, and Malik Boothe not being able to make plays or hit wide open shots?

How big John Williamson had himself a career-best chest thumping day? And how the interior defenders were faked off their feet and just picked up fouls?

Or how St. John’s did not score at all until 13:44 was left on the clock, on a free throw? Or how the 12:32 mark was the first field goal?

The fact that announcer Doris Burke went into a bit about how European players were more skilled, talking about Tomas Jasiulionis’ ball handling and shooting—“he prefers to play on the outside,” she said—facts that one would know are inconclusive at best because he never plays? And when he does, he fouls like the sweaty intense dude at the YMCA?

I think it was how, when Cavataio and Coker were logging garbage time minutes (I liked the rebounding from both of them and with another year of learning they’ll make more of an impact), ESPN switched from the game to…

BONUS COVERAGE. Like St. John’s was a bad NFL team being blown out by the Patriots.

ESPN ran a poll on Bruce Pearl/ Rick Pitino/ Bob Huggins’ sideline sartorial stylings. Because they knew the game would BE. THIS. BAD.

Freshmen or not, St. John’s basketball program just can’t make progress with more double-digit losses like this.

More news tomorrow.  Box score note: Liam Bietsy didn’t start or play, Malik Boothe did.

Game #19: St. John’s 42, Georgetown 74: Hoyas Dog Out Weakening Storm

We scored more than St. Louis’ low! 1-7 in Big East conference.

Lou Carnesecca left the game while giving an interview– he saw a breakaway dunk, I think, and cut his conversation about the LAST time St. John’s was worked over by Georgetown in 1982… this game was embarrassing. And at least that St. John’s team won 20+ games, got to the tournament, and had players like Chris Mullin and Mark Jackson and Wennington hanging around. They played against Patrick Ewing! Last night’s team made Vernon Macklin and Patrick Ewing (starting in place of injured DaJuan Summers) look like future all-pros.

The Hoya fans made much more noise than the Red Storm fans, who I think are at stage 4: depression.

Last night, St. John’s suffered its worst loss margin in their Big East history, losing by 32 in a game that wasn’t that close until garbage time… which coincided with the beginning of the second half. Really, the game was over when St. John’s couldn’t find a field goal until 4:30 left in the first half. That’s 15:30 of basketball time before they scored from the field; they had three free throws before that. What was the score, 24-5? 31-5? (31-7) I was in a haze watching that game. St. John’s scored the second field goal, by the way, with :35 seconds left in the half.

Georgetown’s whole roster played, it seemed, with some tall walk-on named Bryon Jensen stroking a three-pointer at the end of the game. Everybody has their one liners ready:

NY Post:

The fans - and only an announced crowd of 9,924 showed up for last night’s St. John’s-Georgetown game at the Garden - don’t even care enough to boo anymore.

Oh, there was a mock cheer when Justin Burrell banked in a jumper with 4:34 left in the first half. That was the Red Storm’s first field goal and trimmed their deficit against the Hoyas to 31-7.
St. John’s has lost six straight, matching its longest streak since 2005-06. The Red Storm had no player in double figures. Even worse, they had no players with floor burns.

Not true. Lots of floor burns, but no scoring.

NY Daily News:

“We didn’t play very well and that’s totally my fault,” said an angry coach Norm Roberts, who for the second straight Garden game heard St. John’s fans calling for his head. “It’s totally my fault, the way the team played. We’re going to play much harder. We’re going to play much better. It’s not the kids’ fault. It’s my fault.

“I take total blame for that game.”

Roberts also was very adamant after last Wednesday’s loss to Pitt when he said, “I chose this path,” referring to his building of the program. One has to wonder if the mounting weight of the losses is beginning to fray his nerves.

The displeasure of the program’s supporters is mounting and attendance at the Garden is sliding. According to one person familiar with his thinking, university president the Rev. Donald J. Harrington was thrilled at how well Roberts cleaned up the mess that was the St. John’s program after the 2003-04 season, but he is growing concerned about the current direction of the program.

I hope that’s true, and if so, it’s about time. Though you can’t trust this man to make a great hire…

Newsday:

Remarkably, the Hoyas’ primary defensive weapon, 7-2 Roy Hibbert, was limited to seven minutes in the half because of foul trouble. He played a total of 19 minutes, scoring 11 points. His backup, 6-9 sophomore Vernon Macklin, led all scorers with a career-best 18 points.

The Hoyas, who won their previous two conference games by a combined three points, extended their lead to 53-14 by scoring the first dozen points of the second half before freshman guard Malik Boothe sank a breakaway layup and Mason followed with a floater in the lane, his first of three baskets.

Washington Times:

The last time Madison Square Garden witnessed such a beating Roy Jones Jr. was unloading combinations on Felix Trinidad.

Defensively, the Hoyas were merciless, seemingly contesting every pass, shot and dribble en route to holding the Red Storm to a 2-for-16 shooting performance in the decisive half. In fact, the Hoyas were so dominant defensively that the crowd of 9,924 fans took a break from booing long enough to roar sarcastically when St. John’s forward Justin Burrell made the Red Storm’s first field goal with 4:34 remaining in the half.

Georgetown Voice:

The Red Storm did not score their first field-goal until 4:34 were left in the first half, and they would only convert nine more in the entire game, finishing an abysmal 10-47 (21.3 percent) from the floor. St. John’s also committed 14 turnovers, never looking comfortable on offense and struggling to execute until the final buzzer. Their 42 points were the lowest total allowed by the Hoyas this year and only six more than the lowest score ever in the Big East, set by Boston College in 1988.

Washington Post:

St. John’s (7-12, 1-7) came into the game having lost seven of its previous eight games, and was ranked near the bottom of the conference in several offensive categories. The New York Post, in Wednesday’s editions, searched for “a reason to believe that St. John’s can snap its five-game losing streak with a shocking upset of Georgetown” and offered up “Angelina Jolie was once married to Billy Bob Thornton” as hope.

But after five minutes, it was fairly apparent that the Red Storm wasn’t going to pull off the upset. Burrell stumbled and fell twice before the game was a minute old, and point guard Eugene Lawrence — the lone scholarship senior — had trouble just keeping control of the ball.

ESPN’s game flow chart is hilarious:

It didn’t even bother me. We all know this team is wildly flawed. I am going to get to that player-by-player analysis this weekend while I am on my way to or in New York. The competitive moments in this game came with Mike Cavataio on the floor, and when the team actually ran a little… more on that later.

Game #17: St. John’s 57 vs Pittsburgh Panthers 81

St. John’s falls to 7-10 overall, 1-5 in the Big East. Sharing the basement with Rutgers, who beat Villanova last night.

AAAAAARRRRRGGHHHHH.

My friends wonder why I watch this team, and maybe they’re right. Maybe following the Red Storm isn’t the best use of my time. Maybe I should spend my time knitting, or reading about Obama’s chances in the primaries, or creating an Eva Mendes fan blog.

Now that’s an idea…

Here’s the box score:

From yesterday’s Keys to the Game:

Tough and Ugly? They shot 54% from the field, 53% from beyond the arc, took 22 foul shots, Sam Young went off, hitting everything in sight, and St. John’s had 16 turnovers. It just felt like more. I guess that’s ugly, but for the wrong side.

Offensive Rebounding. No one had more than 5 rebounds on the night. Burrell was in foul trouble much of the evening. Note: Sean Evans had 3 offensive rebounds, and at times looked like he’d played basketball in a playground once. That’s some improvement.

Run? No pressure on the Pitt defense. They were where the Storm was. Mason got his shots off under heavy pressure; the team couldn’t handle the ball on the dribble, and only Sean Evans had a nice offensive rebound/ put back slam.

Look. The long and short of it is that St. John’s sucked last night. One double-digit scorer. 16 turnovers. Offensive ineptitude. The look on Eugene Lawrence’s face at the end of the game—it was like he was crying. Maybe because of injury or his 11 minutes, but more likely about how this is his last collegiate year, and in many ways it’s worse than his first, on a team with guys who shouldn’t have been Big East scholarship players.

Boothe had his moments, with some decent drives to the basket. He also got rejected by Sam Young, who kept up on him on a drive and blocked him from behind. Coker as a starter was a non-factor, but Tomas Jasiulionis on the bench was a defensive turnstile. Kennedy was pressing hard and I can’t believe his stat line had him 3-8 with no turnovers… his questionable handle went south for the winter. Burrell was in foul trouble and when the Johnnies tried to feed him the ball, it was well-defensed. That’s some of the most basic basketball, feeding the post… and the Red Storm can’t do that much. The offense was confused by a really good defense, and the Panthers played with precision AND Sam Young’s hot hand… it was tough to watch.

Larry Wright was scoreless but handled the ball as the point guard for short stretches, with 3 assists. Interesting, very very interesting.

This game was the dog of dogs. Let’s see what the papers have to say. Besides the basic fact that we got served. It’s kind of amusing, really; watching the depths of ineptitude. It’s time to make this into the Eva Mendes blog. No, she’s appalled by St. Johns’ offensive performance too.

In The Papers:

Pitt Pummels Woeful Storm

But all one needed to know that the sad reality had set in - that this will be a long and painful season for St. John’s - was to listen to the despair in coach Norm Roberts’ voice.

“I would, you know, we …” Roberts began, his voice halting as he searched to answer a question about his dejected demeanor.

“I chose the path that we’re on,” said Roberts, who for the first time in the Garden heard the St. John’s students call for his firing. “I chose to bring in eight freshmen. I chose to do that for our program and to build a foundation. We have to take our lumps in order to get good.”

SJU’s Norm Roberts gets Isiah treatment

It has stood for every minute of every game, cheering through losses. They have ridden opponents, and despite their numbers, tried to make the Garden and Carnesecca Arena inhospitable. But even the St. John’s student section - the Red Storm’s most loyal fans - is getting fed up.

St. John’s coach Norm Roberts has said the freshman-laden Red Storm would take its lumps, and pleaded for patience. His overtures were met last night with calls for his job from the student body before even the first half was complete in last night’s 81-57 Big East loss to No. 13 Pittsburgh before just 5,219 at the Garden.

There was still 3:21 left before the break and the Panthers, who were without injured starters Mike Cook and Levance Fields, held a 33-20 lead when the student body began to chant “Fire Norm!”

“When it was a close game, the crowd was behind us, but when it slipped away, it felt like they kind of turned on us,” said Malik Boothe, who played 28 minutes at point guard with Eugene Lawrence slowed by a sore knee. “It’s not them, it’s us. We have to play a full game, not 20minutes.”

Pitt dominates St. John’s at deserted Garden

Inside the arena St. John’s helped make famous, before 14,544 empty seats, the Red Storm took another uncertain step into its second century of men’s basketball.

Although the program has suffered more painful defeats in a mostly glorious history, few losses have presented a sadder spectacle than the emotional brownout seen at Madison Square Garden Wednesday night. To be fully comprehensive, the final score should be three-sided: Pittsburgh 81-Anthony Mason Jr. 29-St. John’s teammates 28.

Post-Game Thoughts on Raining on the Red Storm

It was a slow and steady blowout in the game. Pitt would build a lead, St. John’s would make a little run, then Pitt would make a bigger run to take a bigger lead. That repeated itself multiple times until Pitt was up by as much as 26 and it was time to clear the bench.

Young wills Pitt to win over St. John’s

“Mason did a good job of keeping those guys in it,” Pitt guard Keith Benjamin said. “Sam did a good job of just torching them and helping us pull away.”

More articles and quotes from the Coach and Players, including a Norm Roberts patented “Give [team] a lot of credit…”©:

Not All of the A-10 is in Top Form

(Hat tip to eben for sending this along)

St. Louis University. They have to be everyone’s favorite college with a team mascot created by an art teacher in 1908 and a head coach who seriously resembles a Billiken. Tonight, they hit a new low while adjusting to the Rick Majerus era, scoring 20 points in a 48 minute game, breaking a post-shot clock record for fewest points in a game. So Georgia Southern and Princeton, your 21 point “efforts” are wiped away for all time.

Thank the “good luck figure who represents the way things ought to be.”

Also, the Billikens lost tonight’s game, 49-20 to the George Washington Colonials, in both teams’ A-10 league openers.

Game #14: St. John’s 65, University of Connecticut 81

Alternate title = Last Night’s Blowout.

Last night, St. John’s Red Storm went to the University of Connecticut’s Gampel Pavilion to be used as target practice. Bad passes, poor shooting, and inept help defense helped the Johnnies lose by 16 points in a game that wasn’t even close after about 6:00 of game time. It would be nice to think that this thrashing by the Huskies is a one time thing, but U Conn tends to whoop up on the Red Storm like the first person killed in a splatter-filled horror movie—dismissively easily, thoroughly brutally.

From the Newsday article, a quote from AJ Price, the man whose laptop-stealing has been overshadowed in announcer’s eyes by his medical issues (he’ll always be a thief who got to keep his scholarship to me):

“We looked at the scouting report,” point guard A.J. Price said. “We saw they had six or seven freshmen. We knew how we were last year. We knew we could get them rattled.”

….the most charitable of the Red Storm competitors was not a freshman but a senior point guard, Eugene Lawrence. He had four turnovers in a concentrated period of the first half when UConn took a 21-point lead before power forward Justin Burrell went on a personal 9-0 run for St. John’s.

“Eugene had a bad night and he knows that,” Roberts said. “He made some ill-advised passes. [But] he’s our leader. He’s the heart and soul of our team. He’ll play better.”

Price had a career-high 25 points. U Conn coach Jim Calhoun felt sick and spent the second half in the locker room, but was well enough to speak to his team after the game. Jerome Dyson also had a career best night with his steals. From the NY Daily News:

Dyson, who had 20 steals in the Huskies’ first 13 games, had eight alone in the first half last night. It sparked UConn (11-3, 2-1) to a big early lead and allowed the Huskies to coast through the second half, with head coach Jim Calhoun in the locker room suffering from stress and exhaustion over a recent death in his family.”They kind of made it easy for me,” said Dyson, who finished with 12 points and a career-best nine steals. “They were basically throwing lazy passes and I was able to run right behind them and get the easy steal, but some of them just landed in my hands. Some of them were like they rolled them right in front of me.”

“He’s a terrific defender, but I also think we threw it to him,” Storm coach Norm Roberts said. “There weren’t even times he needed to get it. He probably was surprised he was getting hit with the ball.”

….While Roberts frequently has noted that his eight freshmen are learning on the job, he said, “We played really young tonight.”

That comment was probably a dig at some of his veterans, too. Lawrence had all of his four turnovers in the first half and Mason, a junior forward, had three turnovers. Lawrence’s performance stood in contrast to the play of freshman backup Malik Boothe, who had seven assists and no turnovers.

“Malik is going to play more,” Roberts said afterward.

Roberts said the poor fundamental play - “playing too loose with the ball,” he called it - doesn’t have him down.

“I don’t know if it makes me feel bad about me,” he said. “I think UConn had something to do with it.”

Those passes certainly were lazy. Now from the NY Post:

The Red Storm - the league’s third-lowest-scoring team - had shot 51 percent against Cincinnati, and hoped that was more epiphany than aberration. But last night, Price held senior guard Eugene Lawrence to two points on 1-of-6 shooting with four turnovers. Dyson had six steals in the first 8:16, playing the passing lanes to perfection.

“They made it easy for me,” said Dyson, who added a dozen points. “They were basically throwing lazy passes and I was able to run up right behind them and get the easy steal.”
Apparently so. On one sequence, Dyson stole the ball, went in for a layup and got fouled. He missed the free throw, but stole the ball back and dunked, part of an 11-2 run that pushed the lead to 25-14.

The Hartford Courant:

“I felt like I was in the layup line,” Dyson said. “Just kept catching the ball and going to the basket.”

And also:

“Coach [Jim Calhoun] told us they turn the ball over a lot more than they have assists,” Dyson said. “That is one thing I knew from the start. There would be a chance for steals. We went over a lot of their plays. We kind of knew what they were going to try to do. They wanted to get the ball to [Anthony] Mason a lot.”

Game #5: St. John’s 47 at Miami Hurricanes 66, or Wha’ Happen?

It was an ass-whoopin’, clean and clear. More notes on the game later, but basically, Miami’s bigger athletes overpowered the Johnnies. The first half was ugly but St. John’s tied the game at the half. Then they came out and got abused in the second half by Anthony King, who was Tyler hansbrough for one small stretch of his life. That will be his highlight reel to eastern European teams when he’s done with this, his 6th year of eligibility.

The Red Storm looked confused, out of sorts; Larry Wright couldn’t hit the sidewalk with his shot; Burrell was handled on both ends of the court; and the coaches had no good answers.